Senga McLeod and Heather Macleod: Coordinating Health Walks for 25 years

With over 25 years’ experience of coordinating Health Walks between them, Senga McLeod and Heather Macleod have seen first-hand the difference walking makes to so many people.

In this podcast episode, they chat to Walking for Health Development Officer Nicole Bell about their roles, the impact that Health Walks have on individuals and the community, and the contribution of their fantastic volunteer network.

They also share their views on what makes a great Walking for Health project and reflect on their most memorable and often fun moments over the years.

Finally, the pair share their views on why being part of the Scottish Health Walk Network is so important, there hopes for the future of walking, and explain why they are pleased Paths for All are continuing to push walking further up the political and social agenda.

Transcript

Nicole:   0:00
Welcome to Voices of the Walk, Paths for All's everyday walking podcast. Our mission is to get Scotland walking - everyone, everywhere and everyday. In this podcast series, we'll be hearing from a variety of Scotland's walking champions who are helping make our vision a reality.

Nicole:   0:18
Welcome to this episode of Voices of the Walk. My name is Nicole Bell, and I'm a Development Officer in Paths for All's Walking for Health Team. I'm delighted to be joined today by Heather Macleod and Senga McLeod, who when added together, have developed and supported Health Walk projects in Glasgow and Renfrewshire for over 25 years. Both are currently supported by Paths for All funding to deliver new and innovative projects as part of their existing roles within Glasgow Life and Renfrewshire Leisure - a very warm welcome to both of you. Why don't we start by you telling us a little bit about yourself, your current roles, and how these have evolved over time?  

Heather:   0:54
Hi Nicole. My name's Heather and I work with Glasgow Life with the Good Move Glasgow project and my role really is to support and coordinate the Health Walks across Glasgow - so recruit volunteers and set up our own walks, but also working with local organisations to help them set up walks for their service users as well.  

Senga:   1:13
Hi Nicole. My name's Senga, walking coordinator for  Renfrewshire and, like Heather, our roles are very similar. My job is to look after the Renfrewshire Walking Network which has evolved over the years quite a lot.

Nicole:   1:27
So, can you tell me a wee bit about what drew you into these roles in the first place?

Heather:   1:31
I was a Countryside Ranger for many years, which was great, but I got more interested, actually in the benefits that people were experiencing that I was working with and actually being in the outdoors. So, I got involved in Health Walks at that point and then I went back to college and did an HNC in working with communities and then this role came up in Glasgow, so, in my dream job!   

Heather:   1:53
Perfect fit for you!

Heather:   0:00
Absolutely.  

Heather:   1:57
And Senga what about yourself?

Senga:   1:57
I came into this a totally different way. I came in through a friend. My background was sports coaching, so it was more about the physical activity and this role came up with in Sports Development in Renfrewshire Council and I thought I could do that, I could do walking! So I went along to the interview and things, I actually did volunteer for a little while before I actually went in for the role, which helped me greatly in the interview.

Nicole:   2:20
Do you want to tell me about how your roles have evolved over the time you've been involved, too?

Heather:   2:25
Yeah, I guess I'm lucky in that my full-time role is supporting Health Walks, I know a lot of the other coordinators, you know, they have different roles within that. I'm really lucky in that I do walking full-time, out there walking all the time, and initially it was very much recruiting the volunteers and setting up our own Health Walks that we managed directly. It has evolved more really into supporting organisations and my role is now mainstreamed within Glasgow Life and there's also a coordinator role within as well, so I'm more a Development Officer and my colleague Michelle does the more day to day management with, and supporting of, the volunteers.

Senga:   3:05
My role has just totally changed over the years. I was full-time walking for about six years or something. So my post was Walking DeVelopment Officer. It has since evolved and now walking is only part of my remit - the part that I really love and the other part of my remit is working with young children and different organisations through physical activity. So, it has just totally changed.

Nicole:   3:28
Let's talk a wee bit about your walking projects in particular then. So do you want to tell us a wee bit about who comes along and how your attract your walkers to your projects?     

Senga:   4:59
In Renfrewshire we've got what I always call 'stepping stones to walking'. So, there's a walk for everyone. We start in the community, so there's  Health Walks - so we're low level in the community, we do up to about an hour's walk at the very most. Then we move on to our 'feeling fitter' programme which has three levels of walks. So once you get too fit to do the community walks and want to try something a bit more adventurous then you can go onto  level 1A which last for about just over an hour, an hour and a half. Once you've completed that, you want to move on a wee bit further, because you're getting even fitter, you can move onto level 1B. So 1B  people are walking for maybe two hours and then when you're so fit from doing 1B you can move onto level 2 and these guys who do level 2 are out walking most of day. So they meet at half 10 in the morning and they're out until about 3, 4 in the afternoon. The eldest walker I think we've got is about 90 doing that at the minute. 

Senga:   4:59
How I attract walkers? Word of mouth is a huge benefit, it's the best way to get walkers. Somebody who has came along to the walking groups, they go home, they tell their friends, and then their friends come along the next time so then they tell friends, so before they know it, they're coming with a whole group of friends! But what we found on the walks sis they don't always walk with their friends, they're walking with other people. So they come along with friends and they start walking up and down the group, so they're meeting new friends again. Yes, so, start off with their friends basically and they meet a whole new network of people, so it builds their confidence as well. It's really good.

Nicole:   4:59
What we hear a lot in terms of feedback across our Scottish Health Walk Network is, it's really the social element that pulls people in, but ultimately it's that that keeps them coming back too - those new connections that people make and feel more connected in the community as well. Heather, is there anything you'd like to add in terms of how you attract walkers to your programme or what you've had success with there?

Heather:   5:21
Yeah, I think we tend to focus just on the low-level, kind of up to the hour, and there are other ways we can then signpost people to. I think word of mouth is  important but it's all the usual things, you know, going along too events, awareness raising, working with organisations, Facebook posts. There's been a lot of work obviously yourselves at Paths For All have been doing a lot more promotion as well and just raising the profile of walking. So just, you know, wherever you're out and about and we see our walk leaders and walkers, they're now champions themselves, so making sure they've got wee leaflets and things as well and encouraging them to invite their friends and people they know and meet as well and just, you know, local newsletters and all that kind of stuff.

Senga:   6:03
I usually find you've got a bag with you or in your handbag or something, there's something to promote your groups, that everyday you meet somebody, you're "oh, try this group." It works!

Nicole:   6:11
Brilliant. And can you tell me wee bit about the impact that the Health Walks have had on the people you see coming along, once they once they've been recruited?

Senga:   6:21
I think the impact is huge. I think the social impact is amazing. I think, sometimes that outweighs the physical impact. I have seen people come along and didn't know anyone, suddenly I introduce them to someone and they're friends with them and then they meet other people, they're going holidays, they're going on nights out, they've got a great social life once they get into that group.

Heather:   6:40
Yeah, it's a stepping stone isn't it? It's just a springboard to lots of other activities.

Senga:   6:44
No,  absolutely huge, and it's our job I suppose in the communities to signpost them to these other activities that are happening in the community. The social impact, I can't stress enough, it is huge. Absolutely huge.

Heather:   6:58
And I think, I suppose just to  illustrate it a wee bit. I had a training course a week or so ago. It was quite a small one. So, we got  to know each other quite well. But when we're talking about the benefits and the health benefits two of them actually got quite tearful saying they came forward as walk leaders to support the group because it I had such an impact on them. One, her husband had been ill and she was caring for him and she said that was just a wee bit of time for, you know, a bit of space for her to regroup and what have you and then when her husband sadly passed she goes "the group were there for me" and, you know, they came to the funeral and then, you know, I was able to keep coming and they were so welcoming and supportive at the walk but also also outwith it as well. And the other lady she said she could hardly walk and came along, the group were so welcoming and the leader really just helped build  her confidence and she said, you know, I literally had, after 100 metres or whatever, I had to sit down but over time, you know, she just got so much fitter and she;s just gone up the cobbler at the weekend with her grandson and she thought she would never achieve that, and it was just fabulous. She was showing photographs and everything. I think when you hear those stories again that makes it all feel worthwhile and you are quite passionate about it and you get quite emotional about it yourself. But I think the impact, as Senga said, is just massive.

Nicole:   8:16
And of course, none of this is possible without, on both sides, your absolutely fabulous volunteers who help your programme run. What do you think it is that helps keep those people motivated - obviously seeing the difference that they're making with the walkers, too?

Heather:   8:33
Yeah, I think so and  just I supposed from our point of view, myself and Senga's role is to ensure that they feel appreciated and that we tell them that you know the difference in the making and thank them for their input because the programmes wouldn't be here without our volunteers. So we're so grateful for the time that people gift and the enthusiasm and the passion that they have. And, you know, it's not just one hour a week for a lot of of volunteers even just to come to walk, they've got to be there early, they stay, then they're having a cup of tea. So, you know, it's a good two hours and some people are doing that two or three times a week for us. So, it's great.

Senga:   9:09
Absolutely. And you also find that a lot of the actual volunteers themselves have been walkers within the grip and they've come through and possibly Heather and I have identified them as being potential walk leaders - twisted their arms up their backs [laughs]! But these guys feel as though they want to give a wee bit back to the group  because they've got such a lot out of walking groups. So, they want to give a wee bit  back and when they see other people in the positions that that they used to be, that makes them feel good. So they feed their stories back to us as well and it makes us feel good - but it is all about appreciating them.

Heather:   9:43
Absolutely. Yeah, making sure that, I suppose thanking them, but making sure that our managers appreciate what they're doing as well. They get a thank you during National Volunteer Week and they get the certificates and the shows of appreciation as well from ourselves.

Senga:   10:01
- And lots of cups of tea! [Laughs]

Nicole:   10:04
Well I know, for example, you had your 10 year birthday celebration in the summer

Heather:   10:08
Yes, we had a Big Fit Birthday Bash!

Nicole:   10:08
And, Senga, you had your garden party and it's all these kind of things that just help build that community of volunteers, and give them that peer network, but also crucially recognise what a  huge contribution they're making. We really appreciate from our side as well!

Heather:   10:26
We're looking forward, we've got our Winter Warmer this week, and one of our walkers is in a band, and the band are gonna play - the Arkansas Ramblers are going to come and play at our event this week. They're a swing band.

Nicole:   10:37
Multi-talented individuals! So, both of your projects are now part of our Scottish Health Walk Network. What has being part of this network meant for your project?

Senga:   10:50
I think it's like being part of a family, that you're part of something bigger, cause sometimes you can feel quite alienated in your own community, in your own sector basically, because I know when I first started in Renfrewshire Council I was the only one and I kept advocating walking was good for you blah, blah, blah, and everybody's like that "Och, it's all about jogging, it's all about jogging, you're better running, walking isn't the thing, it'll never take off" and those same  people coming chapping my door now saying, "Senga, can you do this for me? Can you do that for me, you're right, walking does have a lot of impact". So, think it's knowing that you're part of that bigger family if you like. That you're not alone there and you've got support whenever you need it.  

Heather:   11:31
Yeah, I think it's having the support and it's the structure isn't it as well - the resources that are put behind it, you know, Paths for All have been doing  a lot of work lobbying at a higher level as well. So there's now the profile of walking has been raised. The Scottish Government's bought in to it more, we've got our walking strategy, and so that makes our life easier down here, down on the ground, and, yeah, it's very good like you say just having that structure and the good practice that you know, you feed down to us that we're all singing from the same hymn sheet. And, you know, just things like today we're here for the trainers' networking day and, you know, it's just been really positive hasn't it? And it gives us a wee bit of galvanising and rejuvenation as well to go back and get going again!

Senga:   12:19
Yeah, and I think if you get the buy in of your management, then it's an amazing thing because now that we've got the walking strategy and all the white papers and everything, they know it's coming from a higher level now, it's not just coming from "oh, we're just doing walking groups". They know there's a higher purpose to it and that's getting bought into at a higher level, so they're more interested in it now, I feel - 'cause I've been shouting for a long time,  we need this, we need this, we need this - but now we've got it and it's great.

Nicole:   12:44
Oh, I'm really glad to hear that, that's great. So in both your organisations, you're working to sort of widen participation in walking and in physical activity through new ventures. So, in Renfrewshire Leisure, you've got your new Sporting Memories Project and the Apple Clinic work that you're doing and Good Move Glasgow have now had the addition of the Walking Bears programme to your portfolio of work as well. Can you tell us a little bit about these projects and the individuals you're working with through those?  

Senga:   13:11
Sporting Memories is a fantastic group, I absolutely love working with them. The ethos of Sporting Memories is to evoke memories through sporting  memorabilia,  walking, whatever activity, we can do that. They've got thirty minutes physical activity in the middle of their two hour session. And, we're working to reduce isolation and support people living with long term conditions. At the minute, we hold a group in the KGV [Pavillion]. We have about 15 people who come along to that. Now, that's all different conditions, and we just have a fab time. Last week we had an ex Celtic player came along to speak to the group. Brought all his  memorabilia, we done a Q & A with him. It was just fantastic. So some of the guys who come along from one of the learning centres they went away with ties and things and it was amazing to see their faces, it is just absolutely fantastic, but as I say we do 30 minutes of physical activity in the middle of it, so we do quizzes, we watch videos and things and they we do maybe like boccia, we do curling or we go a walk, depending on the weather and the memories these guys have is just tremendous. It's just, it's amazing, some of them go away back to their childhoods, so we start talking about childhood games. And it's amazing the discussions that it all starts. It's absolutely fantastic and I'm dead chuffed to part of the project, it is just amazing. Apple Clinic is a new project being funded by Paths for All - thank you very much! It's due to kick off in January. We're working on it at the minute. That's a project in partnership with the RAH  hospital. So it's with the clinical nurses and the consultants and the whole ethos behind it is people need to get fit before they can have operations. So we're doing prehab walks, so they'll come to me. and they'll get fitter so we'll do a 10-week programme where they'll come. If they've got 10 weeks before their operation that is. They'll come coming and they'll get health chats and things and then we would build up their walking programme. They'll go and get get their operation, so they'll have their op,  the consultant will sign them off to do their strength and balance around the hospital. Then, they'll come back to me again at the other end to do rehab walks. So we'll still incorporate the strength and balance into it, we'll build up their walking programme. So then the pathway is  they move on to the community walks and all the other walks within Renfrewshire and any other activities are happening. So, I'm really excited to getting started on this.  

Heather:   15:35
So, will you lead the walk, intially? Or is it volunteers or staff?

Senga:   15:39
Well, a mixture. I do have volunteers in place who want to be part of it. So, I'm great believer, though I should be there to start with, if you know what I mean, to help them off and whatever else. So, I'll be there to start with and hopefully for most of the year, I'll be there, because I think it'll be such a good project - they're not getting all the fun! [Laughs]So, I think it'll be amazing to see people's progress. So they're coming to us and they're really, really unfit. Consultants are telling them, sorry, you can't have your operation - they're maybe over weight or just need to get fitter, basically. So, the walking will help with that - and we'll give them all the health chats and stuff to go with it. Really excited to be starting it, so, yes.Excellent. That's good. The Walking Bears is a great project, it's funded by Smart Choices, Smarter Places - their Open Fund.  We're working, predominantly I suppose, up until now,  really, the Health Walks have been involving adults and older adults, and this is looking more at  families, particuarly young families. So, it's inviting families on the east end of Glasgow to adpot a bear and the bear comes with a map and a passport and on the map are all the places that provide pre-5 activities. So, the idea is that they will go and visit these places and collect a sticker - but hopefully while there they'll find out what's happening and get involved and have a bit of fun as well. So, we've given out all the bears and they've been going to collect all their stickers and things - we set up a private Facebook group as well and encouraged  families to post pictures and stories and things - so it's been lovely just seeing, you know, the kids out with the bears and on the swings and things and also we've linked with that  had various, each month, an event to come along to and been linking with local organisations to deliver those events - again to try and get people to come and experience what's on their doorstep - which has been great and as well we've just started last week a family Health Walk walk, too. So, it's actually my colleague that's leading on that. So, unfortunately I couldn't make the first walk, but I think they had about six families that came along to that. So, yeah, it's been great. So, they walked to the local play park and then the kids all bring their their bear. So, it's a lovely big teddy bear and the Good Move office one is 'Bearnadette', she's called [laughs]. So,  Bearnadette goes everywhere with us as well. So, it's been good. So, 250 families have been involved, so we're just sort of looking at the evaluation of that just now. So, yeah, I think if it's successful, we're hopefully rolling out to other areas because it's being really good, because a lot of work done at the beginning to involve all the local organisations, so that they feel like they're part of it and partners and hopefully they're seeing more visits from local families.

Senga:   18:40
Brilliant. What would you say has been the biggest change you've seen in engagement with walking over the years that you've been in post, have you seen a change in that over time?

Senga:   19:50
I think more people are doing it now. I think, like when I said earlier, back in the day when I first started, walking wasn't a big thing. It was more about getting people out, getting them active, getting them jogging and running, getting them into gyms, getting them into gym classes. But now, people have seen the benefits. I think more clinical staff, medical staff are seeing the benefits of walking, so they're now referring more into the  groups and things. I think that seems to be their number one thing, rather than medicating people, it's let's get you out walking.

Heather:   19:50
I think there is much more understanding and realisation of the benefits of walking. Like you say, before, it was quite hard, you'd be going knocking on doors and health professionals, it'd be like saying, "walking? what now?" - but obviously there's been a lot of work in the background and there's loads more research and evidence that shows that walking is the one thing that'll have a massive population change in health and an improvement in health. 

Senga:   19:50
I think because the Government are buying into it now as well, then it's making the medical people stand up and think, wait, this really works - must be something in this! [laughs]

Nicole:   19:59
So, in terms of in terms of looking forward, then, for other projects, who might be able to benefit from your expertise, what would you say were the things that make your most popular walks on your programme, the most popular walks?  

Senga:   20:14
Lots of good routes, basically. Whether it be historical ones or just ones with nice views, nice scenic ones; volunteers in place who actually know their stuff and who're passionate about it. I think that helps quite a lot.  

Heather:   20:31
Yeah, absolutely - and I think it's maybe defining what "successful" means because, you know, some of our walks have loads and loads of walkers, you know, 40, 50 regular, some walks - maybe we only had five or six. And I think for some volunteers, it  can sometimes be a bit disheartening to think "oh, there's only six people" -  but those six people come every single week, and the benefits those six people get are huge and often, you know, Health Walks are almost kind of a slow burner, so you get your core group and then people will will come...and the groups will will grow. So, yeah, I'd say be careful how we define successful because a lot of the time it's numbers, people out on the walks - but, actually, it's the impact on those individuals is what is so important.

Senga:   21:19
Totally agree, totally agree.

Senga:   21:21
I also always tell my walk leaders - if you've even got one person who comes along, that's one person you've helped that day, it's one person you're saving from isolation. So, it's one person that you've saved rather than it's only one person who's turned up to the walk. It's not, it's somebody that you've helped that day.  

Heather:   21:37
Absolutely.  

Nicole:   21:38
Quality, not quantity. 

Heather:   21:40
Definitely.

Senga:   0:00
Absolutely.

Nicole:   21:43
And in terms of, if you could give a 'number one' piece of advice for a new group who were looking to set up a Health Walk, what would be your golden nugget?  

Senga:   21:51
Get the right tea bags! [laughs]

Senga:   21:56
Buy cake! [laughs]. You can go down to biscuits, get cake to start with! [laughs]

Senga:   22:03
I think it's getting the right person in place. I think if you are starting a new Health Walk and you've got volunteers, it's picking the right volunteer for the right area, somebody who can recognise somebody who needs a wee bit of help or who can come down somebody else's level or go up to somebody else's height, or, do you know what I mean? Yeah, it's picking the right volunteer. 

Heather:   22:24
Yeah, the right volunteer or the organisation that you're going to link in with and maybe, I suppose, at the very beginning to try and attract more people - maybe have a wee event, to encourage them to and come along too - either a theme or something and then say "we're going to be doing this every Tuesday for a little walk come and to join us." I think once people come once, you know, they get  hooked in and they get to know people and you know I suppose it's showing them what lovely surroundings we have. So, I suppose, when you're setting up a walk, make sure you're not going to walk down a busy main road, that you've got a bit of green space, that you're going to - for a lot of people they probably wouldn't, or maybe wouldn't, walk there or feel confident enough to walk there themselves - whereas they can do that in a group - so again showing them...  

Senga:   23:06
Even in the communities, if you're walking round, see if it's just streets, you're maybe going up streets that they've maybe not been to for years or are frightened to go into on their own - so going in a group gives them the confidence and they can see what's in that street now, or up alley or whatever else, where they would never do that on their own. So, the group setting is really, really good.

Heather:   24:00
know, we just did a walk last week with the local ESOL [English for Speakers of Other Languages] group and we're going do one in the New Year - a sort of  orientation walk. So, we just take them on a walk, and it's going to be part of the lesson as well, so, looking at language too, but also then showing them that "this is where the knitting  group meet on a Monday, this is where, you know, they have a lunch on Tuesday afternoon, and so we're actually going around and showing them the different facilities and services in the area so hopefully that will be of be of benefit as well. 

Senga:   24:02
Yeah, and I think a big thing is, you and I have got to be really approachable

Heather:   0:00
 Yeah. [laughs]

Heather:   0:00
Just as well we are! [laughs] 

Senga:   24:12
As she looks at me, "...yeah" [laughs]

Senga:   24:13
Because, when you think about it, if we're not approachable, we're never going to walkers in the door, we're never going to get walk leaders in the door to volunteer for us. So we've got to be an approachable person as well, so that they'll come to us and they'll trust us - it's about gaining their trust and their support, isn't it?  

Heather:   24:25
Yeah, absolutely.

Senga:   0:00
 So, luckily, we're really approachable people! [laughs] 

Heather:   24:31
We're lovely, Senga. We're lovely people! [laughs]

Senga:   0:00
  Yeah! It's the McLeods!

Heather:   0:00
  [Laughs] Of course! The Macleods!

Senga:   0:00
  The Mac and the Mc! [laughs]

Heather:   0:00
  [laughs] That's us!

Nicole:   24:32
Brilliant. So, in terms of how you would envisage the next 10 years of walking in communities across Greater Glasgow and Clyde, what do you think that's going to look like?

Senga:   24:50
Me retired! [laughs]

Heather:   24:54
With a wonderful legacy!    

Senga:   0:00
Absolutely!  

Heather:   24:59
Just more people walking in general and - you know - not just coming on our Health Walks, we're looking active travel, walking to school, walking to work, using the car less and having lots of beautiful places to walk in, so making sure that the infrastructure is there to make it more walker friendly.

Nicole:   25:17
Placemaking is such an important part of that, because if people don't feel connected to the places they're walking in and they don't feel like they're a nice place to be, they're not going to walk, so it's such an important element too.  

Heather:   25:29
Absolutely. I think that the Health Walks are here for the long run. I think they're just so  successful and the communities that are involved in it, you know, I think everybody gets such a benefit out of it.  

Senga:   25:40
Yeah, and they can all be built on because they have been so successful. Even if it is just one person turns up for a walk, it's still successful so, yeah, ditto to everything you said! [laughs]

Heather:   25:52
Okay! Cheers to that, Senga.

Nicole:   25:55
And I have one final question that we ask all our Voices of the Walk guests - hopefully quite a straightforward one - but some people have had some difficulty. The question is, can you tell us what your favourite walk is?

Heather:   26:07
I suppose for me personally, I love a beach. I mean, I live in Glasgow, but I like going to the seaside - so anywhere with a beach. We particularly love Arran. So, maybe Kildonan Beach - walking along the beach,  there's all the seals at the end to go and see, the  waves, the sound, the sand on your shoes. But yeah, I I would go with that, with the hills behind you.

Nicole:   26:35
That sounds lovely - and what about you, Senga, what's your favourite personal walk? Arran as well? Heather's really sold Arran! [laughs]

Heather:   26:39
Come to Arran! You'll have a great day! [laughs]

Senga:   26:42
She's sold Arran, I do love Arran, it's one of my favourite places. One of my favourites...hmm...

Heather:   26:48
Where do you walk the dog?   

Senga:   27:08
Everywhere! Gleniffer Braes. I love the Glennifer Braes. 

Heather:   27:09
Shows you can mix business and pleasure, can't you? If you're a Health Walk Coordinator! Thank you both so much for joining us...